The holidays are always a big source of anxiety and temptation for people who are in recovery. So we wanted to do an episode on what things to watch out for, share some of our anxieties, and share some of our tried and true tips for surviving the holidays sober. We all have very different families and traditions, so we’ve gathered what we think is a great mix of folks in this episode to try to share several different perspectives.
We talk about the stress of the whole holiday season, from having money to buy gifts to going to events. We go on to discuss setting boundaries, figuring out what you’re able to spend, where you’re willing to go, what expectations you’re willing to meet and which ones you aren’t. And we talk about sticking to those boundaries.
We share our experiences with giving and receiving alcohol as gifts, and how we handled those situations. We also offer tips and ideas for what to say when offered a drink, or when you’re asked why you don’t drink. We talk about how to plan ahead for social situations, and things we’ve learned along the way that help make them a little more comfortable. We discuss how to handle serving alcohol to family and friends when we are the ones hosting the gatherings. And we also talk about all of the reasons choosing to stay sober through the holidays is the best decision we’ve made. The holidays should be a time of joy, and of connection, and of memories made. Let’s stay sober, and give ourselves the chance!
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Transcript
Julie: We are here tonight with Kris, Zoe, and Steven. Do you guys want to go ahead and introduce yourselves? Kris, I’ll maybe have you go first.
Kris: Sure. I’m Kris, I’m from San Diego, California, and I have 4 months and 3 days sober.
Julie: Awesome, thank you for being here tonight. And Zoe.
Zoe: Hi, I’m Zoe. I’m 28 years old. I’m a married mom of 2, and I am one year and 9 months sober.
Steve: Awesome.
Julie: Very cool. And then Steven.
Steven: Hey, I’m Steve, from north Texas, and I think I have 106 days sober.
Julie: Awesome. Cool, thank you guys all so much for being here with us. No matter how long we have been sober, the holidays can throw us for a loop. So many of us have to cope with family drama and pressure, parties and other social situations, being surrounded by people drinking, romanticizing about celebrating with a drink, and the question we all worry about getting asked – “Why aren’t you drinking?”
So let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about facing the holidays sober. We have some folks here who have made it through the holidays at least a couple of times, and others that are facing their first holiday season sober. What is or was hard for you, what makes you nervous? What do you expect this year to look like? How are you planning for it? If you’ve been through the holidays before, what did you learn?
Kris: Well, because I got sober in June, just this last June, I have not gone round to the holidays yet this time around. But a time in the past I got sober, I had a really horrible Thanksgiving where I drank so much that I got sober the day after, which meant that I stayed sober through Christmas. And I just kept saying to myself, “Why did I pick the holidays to start the stopping drinking process?” But I made it. I think the part that makes me nervous is that it’s not just about the parties and the people asking me to drink, it’s the fact that I start feeling the stress right around Thanksgiving about, you know like am I gonna have enough money for gifts? And I’m gonna be seeing family and how is that going to make me feel? So the stress of the holidays is sometimes what makes me want to drink. Not just the facts about the parties themselves. So I don’t know if anybody has any ideas about that in particular. That’s what I get nervous of.
Zoe: I’d love to… If you are feeling nervous about the up and coming holiday season, I know that I got sober after the holiday season, but it was a big birthday season for our family, and birthdays and holidays are kind of like hand in hand. For me, coming up on holidays, I set a lot of boundaries. That has been huge in my sobriety. If I start feeling overwhelmed about something, I’m like, “Okay, I’m overwhelmed, I don’t feel good, why do I want to do this event? Why do I want to involve myself with these people?” And I kind of just take a deeper look at that and decide, is it really worth my peace of mind to continue, or try to do whatever is coming up? So setting boundaries has been real vital for in the sense of easing my worries when it comes to staying sober and maintaining that sobriety.
Julie: To kind of jump off of that, if you get into… I know the stress of finances during the holidays is a lot, and I think we can even set boundaries with our finances. We can say, “Here’s how much I’m going to spend. This is how much I can afford to spend without it causing me extra stress, or extra anxiety.” And that’s it, that’s the number that you pick. It’s really easy for us, just with like every other part of our lives, to try to meet everybody else’s expectations and try to be “as good as” or “as big as” or whatever. And we’ve had to let go of that in every other part of our lives, or we’re working to let go of that in every other part of our lives, and I think that has to go with gifts and all of that, too. I think we have to be able to set those boundaries, acknowledge what is comfortable and acceptable to us, and that’s what we give to other people. Which is easier said than done. But I think that’s probably the best way to approach that, maybe? I don’t know, what are you guys’ thoughts?
Steven: I think you’re right, Julie. Being the older guy here amongst you all. I have less pressure, I guess, because of that. Even thought there are a lot of things that make me feel self conscious, it wouldn’t be to tell someone that was coming over and they wanted to drink… fortunately I can have people drink around me, it does trigger me or anything, so it doesn’t bother me. I’m lucky that way, I guess. I can have my little sober, NA stuff if I wanted. But setting boundaries like what you’re saying. We have some younger deices and nephews, and once they got to a certain age, we’re not giving them presents anymore. A lot of people feel obligated, “Oh, I’ve got to send everybody, every relative, no matter what their age.” Well, I think after about… well, it could’ve been earlier, but after about 23 or 24 you don’t need to be sending… I mean, you could send a card, but you don’t need to send everybody a gift. And like you were saying, you make kind of a conscious choice, and the people that are really important… you could also make a joint gift or present. Not that anyone needs food products, but they offer nicely displayed things that you can send to the whole family and it kind of eases a little bit of the burden rather than getting individual stuff. And I’ve wrestled a little bit, do I want to give alcohol or wine to anybody. I mean, it wouldn’t bother me to do that, but I don’t know if I’m contributing to their issues. Not that I know that any of the people that I would do that for in theory are having a problem, and I could certainly do it, but knowing now how I feel about alcohol, I don’t know to sit there and be on my high horse. Or maybe I’m not being on a high horse, maybe it’s just being… I can give them something else, I don’t need to give them alcohol, which they can go buy on their own if they really want. So maybe you’re helping me clarify, just thinking out loud here. But do I really want to give that out to someone when that’s not really something I would want?
Steve: Yeah, I think that’s kind of like, “Would I buy this for myself?” Is it that good of a gift? And really in the end, it’s, “Okay, I’m gonna buy them something that’s not good for them at all.” They might enjoy it, but it’s not good for them at all. Would you buy them a pack of smokes, if they were a smoker? Probably not. I know I wouldn’t give that as a gift. It’s essentially the same thing, isn’t it?
Julie: Yeah, when you look at it that way. (laughs) You know, so, I quit drinking for 14 months the first time around. And I was 4 or 5 months sober around Christmastime. Nobody in my family knew, that was a thing I never told anyone. My brother gave me a bottle of wine for Christmas. And I think that’s an interesting point to bring up too, when we receive alcohol as gifts if people don’t know. I live an hour away from my parents, that’s where we had Christmas, and I had that bottle of wine in the back of my car all the way home, and I just remember all I could do was think about that the whole drive home. There was wine there, my husband was out of town, nobody would know, and I mean I went circles and circles fighting about what I was going to do with it. I can’t dump it, because that feels like a waste and it’s a good bottle of wine. Maybe I’ll save it for my husband when he gets home and can enjoy it, but then I’ll feel bad and I’ll miss it. It was this constant circle just because there was a bottle of wine in the back of my car. And that’s a hard one to deal with because if there is anyone in your life that doesn’t know that you’re not drinking, it’s such a common gift. It’s an easy gift to give to anybody if you don’t know them very well. So yeah, that was an interesting experience for me. That was one of the many times that I was like, yeah, I have a problem. This is definitely a problem!
Steve: Yeah, I was given a gift of a bottle of whiskey, because they didn’t know that I had a drinking problem. Okay, of course. And it sat there in the house, and I did the same thing. As you’re talking… I did the same thing, it’s a good bottle of whiskey, I could give that to someone, it would be a good gift for them. And then like, wait a minute. Right? I so wanted to pour that sucker down the drain. And my wife at the time, she took it and ended up giving it away. And I was like, “Where is this thing?” I was so ready to dump it. No, I’m not giving this to anybody, it’s not worth it. I don’t want to. That’s where I was at with it. I don’t really are anymore but I don’t think I would give that gift either. I think I probably would now. Now, I think I would give that gift back and say, “I don’t drink. You might as well keep it.” I think I would just say… I think that’s what I would do now, come clean. I’m not afraid of my alcoholism. Of course, here we are on a podcast. So I think I would just say it.
Steven: You know, Steve, you bring up a good point. You know I think it’s Mark Twain that said, “If people think you’re stupid, and you open your mouth and remove all doubt.” I think that’s attributed to him… maybe this isn’t exactly similar, but I saw somebody writing on that IAS app… in this app you can comment to other people, I don’t know what the other sobriety apps are like, try to give them encouragement and support… and somebody had asked, “I’m really having a hard time saying no at parties, I’ve been telling people I’ve stopped drinking for a little bit.” And I’m gonna tie this back into that quote, is that someone wrote, and I thought it was very well said, “Don’t fudge around the edges here. Rather than tell them you’re thinking about stopping drinking, or you’re stopping for the moment, just tell them outright, “I don’t drink anymore.” Because otherwise they’ll ask you questions. “Oh, why are you stopping? When are you going to begin again?” or whatever it might be. But if you remove all the doubt, they can’t… what are they going to say? Are they going to challenge you? “You shouldn’t be stopping drinking, I want you to drink with me.” Maybe somebody would, but I don’t think that’s the majority reaction. I think they just kind of walk away. And maybe someone would think you’re strange, but who cares? At some point, at the age I’m at… at some point, maybe those people will be using their heads and thinking, “Wow, person told me something, I can’t believe they said that.” It might be a month later, but they might come back and say, “Oh, you don’t drink anymore. How did you do that? How did you, how are you able to control that?”
Steve: I think one of the big things going into the holidays that most people… I know I thought about it, I was at the point when I went through Thanksgiving and that was about – I’m in Canada, so Thanksgiving, I was about 6, 7 months sober. And Christmas would’ve been a couple more months after that, so hanging around 9 months, 9 and change. It was not so much the fear that saying no because all of my really close family knew already. I had told them. And I knew they were drinking and they were always very careful around me, just because. But I think it’s important, you make a good point, I think we tell ourselves that everyone is gonna care a whole lot about whether we’re drinking or not. And really in the end, exactly what you said – “I don’t drink.” It kind of just removes all doubt. And there, it’s open for them to ask a question again, after that, you can just say, “I just don’t drink.” I think we feel like we have to explain and justify ourselves all the time. This is what we’re doing, this is why we’re doing it. You know what I mean? And we don’t. At all, unless you feel like it.
Kris: Yeah, I heard something, funny, I just heard it today actually, and I’ll give credit where it’s due. It was on the Annie Grace podcast that someone said – what do you say when someone offers you a drink? And they answer she gave was that people don’t like to hear the word ‘no’. So instead of saying no, when they say, “Would you like a drink?” say “Yes, I’d love a glass of water, I’m just so parched right now. Yes, I’d love an iced tea, I could use a little pick me up with the caffeine.” So you’re still giving them that yes. And then I think whenever I’m the hostess, whenever someone walks in the door, that’s when I ask them if they want a drink. After that I don’t ask anymore, like it’s up to them to get their next drink. I’m not a bar tender, you know what I mean? I’m not a server! So I just figure if I ask the person one time, then after that I let it be where they figure out where everything is and they help themselves from there. So if you can get that first question done, then you’re doing pretty good.
Steve: I love that. Owning the word, “drink”. When you said that, it’s – I’m gonna own the word drink when someone offers me a drink, and I’m gonna define it for them. This is what ‘drink’ means to me. That’s cool. I like that.
Kris: And then I love my bubbly water and I know that a lot of people don’t always have that, or the kind I like. I like La Croix. So I bring it with me. So I’ve got my drink, it’s right here. And then just ‘show me where the glasses are show me where the ice is.’ And then I’m all good. And then I’m all set up.
Zoe: I’d love to expand on that, because I’m also a bubbly drinker. I love Bubly and La Croix. That was my first sobriety crutch, if you will. That got me through my first couple of months. So I would always bring drinks with me whenever I’d go somewhere. That was my emotional support water! (laughs) I would just bring it with me. As long as I have something in my hand, I can avoid being asked, “Oh, do you want this to drink instead?” And I don’t have to feel anxious. Granted, I stayed away from social settings for probably about the first, I want to say, two or three months. I was really, really selective with that because I was very angry when I first quit drinking. I was angry at alcohol in general. Whenever I’d see someone drinking, just, it was everywhere. I noticed it all of a sudden. So I just avoided that for a little bit. But when I started bringing myself out in social settings, it was always holidays, I think St. Patrick’s Day was my first? And that’s a big drinking one in my family, and I remember just bringing a bunch of La Croix and being like – I’ll just put it in a coozy, no one’s gonna say anything. And if my family does say something, I’ll keep it brief. So I can relate to you on that. I think bringing a drink when you have the opportunity to at get togethers, especially during the holiday season, is a great way to open that conversation too, in a less threatening way.
Julie: I think too, it helps to show up with enough for you and enough to share, so you’re not the weird person who shows up with one six pack of La Croix because you know that you’re gonna need it. But you bring a couple of cases, you can say, “No, actually I brought some stuff with me, here’s a bunch for everybody.” It just makes it slightly less awkward. I know going back a little bit to what Steve said. One of my biggest fears this past Christmas was – my parents didn’t know yet that I’d quit drinking or why. And I was sure, going into that day, I felt like I was walking into the gauntlet. Like, they are gonna realize I’m not drinking. They are going to ask why. I’m going to have to stand there, at the dinner table, and be like, “I’m an alcoholic.” I had this all planned in my head of how I thought it was going to go. Because I was at least at a point where I’m not going to try to fake it or BS my way through it. If they’re gonna ask, I’m gonna be honest. I was so sure that that was going to happen. And we made it all the way through the entire Christmas meal, gifts, everything, with my whole family. Nobody even noticed that I wasn’t drinking. I was always the one who was there, like I’d show up with three bottles of wine and probably drink two of them. And nobody even noticed that I was not drinking, not a single question was asked. And I think it’s funny how we work ourselves up into all of this worry and stress and play all of these possible scenarios out in our heads that just make us more and more nervous. And then you get there and you’re like, “Oh. Nothing happened.” That’s just a good testament, I think, to all the stories we create that could possibly happen. They’re not doing us any good. It’s a lot better just to go into like, “I wonder how this is going to go?”
Steve: Attend the event with curiosity. It’s never going to go the way you think it’s going to go. Christmas didn’t go the way I thought it was going to go. I spent two months before Christmas working on my fears that I had about Christmas. The social interaction with my family, the social interaction with my wife and my family and what I was going to say. What I thought everyone was going to say, what I thought I couldn’t say. I had a lot of internal tension going into it that I hadn’t really externalized and it took me a couple of months to work through what my actual problem was, going into it. At least breaking free of the stories I was telling myself about how things were going to go, so I could try and have an open mind. So I could try and show up with curiosity.
Kris: I just happened to have… the last week, I hosted my nephew, his wife, and his three kids at our house. And that’s the first time I’ve ever spent time with them all sober. And I asked my nephew and his wife – they know I’m not drinking – “Do you notice anything different about me since I’m not drinking?” And at first she said no, and she goes, “Why, what do you notice?” And I’m like, I notice I can spend more time with my great nephews without getting bored, or… I love them. They are 5 and 6, and one is just a baby. But I would have to force myself to play with them, because then I wanted to go off and drink. And you can only focus on so much when you’re drinking. It’s kind of cool that now, when we spend time with our families at the holidays and stuff – and our friends – hopefully we can have more conversations and remember them and really enjoy the moment. That’s what happened for me last week. I was thinking if I focus on that for the holidays too, just keep the focus on the people instead of the fact that I am or not drinking.
Zoe: I personally love that. I have an eleven year old son and a five year old, and I’ve noticed in the holiday seasons I’ve been sober, I’m more present. And that has filled a lot of the voids that I used to try to use alcohol to fill. I’m healing my own inner child by working on myself and by spending time with my children. Because a lot of my family was surrounded by drinking. My whole family is big drinkers. So being able to give my children a childhood that I would have loved to have, and being able to just remember it all is huge. Especially Christmas, I can’t tell you how many Christmas Eve’s I’d spend all night drinking, wrapping gifts, and the next day be hungover. It’s like, how there am I really? If I’m just focusing on my head hurting, I’m not taking pictures, I look absolutely awful, I can’t make conversation with anybody. I think it’s really important that you feel those types of things when you start to notice that type of change, like oh my gosh, I’m enjoying spending time with my family again. Those are absolutely the things that you hold onto when you start to have those doubts creep in around this time of year.
Julie: I think one thing that I was gonna bring up is, I think it’s easy to go into any part of this – like Steve said, approaching everything with curiosity – I was so worried that it wasn’t going to be fun. That I was going to be uncomfortable, that I was going to be socially awkward. I had all of these worries and concerns. You know, am I going to feel like I’m being left out, because I don’t get to celebrate with a drink? And I can’t remember who told me this, but it was really simple. Just accept that maybe it will kind of suck. Maybe it’s going to be boring. You don’t know. But you’ll also survive that, and you’ll be okay. If you don’t go into it and give it a chance from start to finish, you’re not gonna have any idea what that would actually look like. And reality is, nobody ever wakes up the next morning and regrets that they stayed sober. You can go all the way through Christmas Day or Christmas Eve or whatever that family time is, and it might feel a little bit uncomfortable, but if you just decide to go ahead and see it all the way through, see how you feel the next morning. And then you’ll know for next year. And a lot of that is that whole procrastinating, putting off the decision until tomorrow. Or in this case, putting the decision off until next Christmas. It’s not going to kill us to make it through one Christmas a little bit uncomfortable, or maybe a little bit bored, or maybe feeling a little bit left out. And you’re pretty much guaranteed to wake up the next day and just be glad you didn’t drink. I remember kind of having to talk myself into that, but it was a really good mind trick.
Steve: You’re definitely going to wake up a lot less uncomfortable. Zoe explained it really well. (laughter)
Steven: Question for you all. If you have family over, rather than going to someone’s – your relatives’ – if you have family over, and in my case, I have three adult children. My youngest is 21, my oldest is 26 and has got a fiancee. He’s probably spending, in this case, Christmas with them. I’m not sure what we’re doing for Thanksgiving, they might be doing things on their own as well. But I have been, in the past, last year when I was trying – there have been many times I was trying to give it up. And I remember at least one holiday, it must have been last Thanksgiving, I was drinking just non-alcoholic stuff. But I bought alcohol because I knew some of the other – my son and fiancee did, and my youngest had just turned 21, so I bought stuff for them. But I guess in that case, even if I was offering it, I could have limited it, so once it ended it was over, and then have a bunch of cider and non-alcoholic stuff around, some kind of seltzer water or club soda, whatever it might be, La Croix, Perrier, whatever it might be. So people still have something to drink, but once the other stuff’s over, it’s over. And that’s kind of the dilemma, having kids that drink. And obviously I have some things I regret, because I was in the midst of my drinking stage, although it hadn’t gotten completely out of control at that point, but I’m kind of thinking outside too of limitations and when to say no. Like if you go to somebody’s house and they’re having a lot of stuff, and maybe it’s harder to do with family, you can certainly do this at parties. But once people start drinking and they’ve had a lot, have your exit plan in place. Like, okay, hour and a half, two hours, if it’s getting sloppy and I’m seeing it’s sloppy. We’re gonna have an excuse, and there’s the little wiggle of the nose, and that’s the signal to get the hell out of dodge here, and we’re leaving. Or something – you can have those plans in place, to leave, and exit, and I think those are helpful because you know you’ve got that back door escape. You don’t have to be like, “I’m gonna be trapped here for however many hours this goes on.” You don’t have to, even if it’s family, I think, “Oh, you know, we wanted to see some other friends.” And it might be true as well. I’m not advocating telling any kind of lies, but if you’ve got to protect your sobriety and there’s something you’ve got to say to make it feel like you can exit, and it makes it easier for you, I think that’s – say you need to get home, you’ve got pets you’re looking after, something’s going on and you need to get back. Most people aren’t even going to ask after two hours. “Oh, really? Okay!” or whatever, I don’t know. If they’re heavy drinkers anyway.
Steve: Yeah, generally speaking for the most part, I don’t think… I mean, you made the effort to show up. I don’t think you’d hear, “Oh my God, we missed you so much,” like sometimes we think. There’s the fear of missing out, and there’s the fear of ‘they want me here.’ So you think you’re more important than what you actually are. I like to say that, because sometimes that’s what I think, sometimes that’s the story I tell myself. You get up, you leave. You showed up, you made the effort, you did everything you could. You left. And then they still have their time, and you had yours. You’re good. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard in 19 months now, “Oh my God, you left early, I missed you.” So I think it…
Julie: A lot of that too is just you have to know your limits, you have to learn how to listen to your inner self. When your inner self is like, “It’s time to go,” you don’t doubt it, you don’t question it, you don’t say, “Self, we’re just gonna stay one more hour.” You just accept that it’s time to go, and you go. And I think that’s necessary. We have to do that. And I think we have to do that when we have people over too. If you’re comfortable buying a few bottles of wine and everybody else sharing those, and that’s not going to be hard for you or make you uncomfortable, then that’s great. If it is going to make you uncomfortable, it’s perfectly acceptable if you’re having them to your house, to just serve mocktails, or whatever it may be. I think that if they’re in your home, you get to hold your own boundaries there, and not feel guilty or feel bad for it. We all have different triggers, different things that we’re able to handle and not handle, and I think we just need to be really honest with ourselves as far as what that is, and then honor ourselves and our own needs when the time comes.
Steve: Is anybody really nervous about any family interaction? Drama or anything along those lines?
Steven: I was just saying, I’ve told everyone, and everyone in my family knows, I’ve told my mother recently that I’m an alcoholic. And she’s supportive, she’s just… it’s worried her. She’s older, and it’s kind of, just… it was news to her. So I don’t have the same needing to come out and tell people. And a good friend of mine, that I hadn’t seen but now we’re doing stuff together. Fortunately he doesn’t drink anymore so it was easy for me to tell him I’m an alcoholic and I’ve stopped. So I’m lucky that way. But I can understand that can be really tough, if you have a lot of friends that are drinkers and you go see them, they may not know who you are at this point in your life. That probably is a conversation. And if they’re good friends… you know, I hear this back and forth. Some people say you can have friends that are drinkers. I don’t know. I think if they respect that you’re not drinking, and you can stay for the amount of time you can before they’re getting to where it’s a problem, and they’re still interested in hanging around you, I don’t know why you couldn’t. But I know a lot of people feel like they lose all their drinking friends. I know that’s probably a case by case basis. A lot of people, maybe they only had that in common, to drink. And so maybe the holidays is a tough reminder that your friends aren’t who you thought they were.
Zoe: I can confirm that most of my friends are drinkers, are still drinkers, and some of the friendships are not as solid as they once were, but all of my friends who are truly my friends, and family that support me, our relationship is still there. The alcohol, for a long time it clouded my judgment and I thought that made me interesting and that’s what connected me with people. When in reality it was really hindering every aspect of the friendships and of the times that we spent together. I personally, in my experience, I still hang out with my friends. I’m not triggered by my friends who drink. And when it comes to holidays, my dad’s also sober. He’s been sober on and off since I was 16 years old, and he got sober again after I got sober, probably two or three months into it. So when we go to family events, my dad and I will drink non-alcoholic beer, we’ll swap whatever we bring, so it’s been bonding for us.
Steven: Oh, that’s great
Zoe: But, the rest of my family – my thing is, I have an exit strategy, because when my mom or my aunts and uncles start to get sloshed, I’ll look at my husband and be like, “Alright, it’s time to go.” We’ve come, we’ve hung out, it’s starting to get annoying, it’s time to go. So I think the exit strategy is big. 100%
Julie: I think it was Debs, on a previous podcast that we recorded, talked about when she arrived at a party or a gathering, she would thank the hostess for having her, tell them how much it meant to her, how happy she was to be there, and also let the host or hostess know, right then, right when she arrived, “When I feel like it’s time for me to go, I’m just gonna go ahead and go.” I’m not going to worry about saying a bunch of huge goodbyes, but I’m really grateful to be here. So she’s already thanked them, before it’s time to go. So she doesn’t have to hunt them down. And then you can avoid the, “Oh, but we’ll miss you,” or whatever. And the friend who is at that point sober, is like, “Yeah, no problem, completely understand.” I thought that was a really good way to approach that. Especially if the people in your life know that you are sober, and that it would be a struggle. Just let them know upfront, hey, I might have to go. And pretty much good friend is going to honor that. But I thought it was a really good approach to just start out with that, when everybody’s still sober, before everybody’s started drinking a bunch.
Zoe: That’s brilliant. I’ve never thought of it that way, like just get it out of the way before things get chaotic so you can just have an Irish goodbye and just disappear for the night. That’s wonderful.
Steven: Because you’ve thanked them already. Yeah, that’s a great idea Debs had. You’ve already appreciated them in person, and said how much they mean to you, and this was great that you got invited, and now you’re free. You’re not encumbered to have to – like you said Julie – hunt them down. And they’re probably going to remember that you enjoyed it versus you say it to them when they’re sloshed, they don’t even know what you’re saying.
Steve: Julie, I think what Debs shared with us on that podcast pretty much nails it. And I think it has more meaning, too, when you say it right at the beginning. And it’s something that’ll be remembered, even when you do the Irish goodbye like Zoe was saying.
So, I want to thank you guys – Kris, Zoe, and Steven – for spending time with us tonight. Sharing your stores, sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate having you guys on tonight, thank you for your time.
Kris: Thank you
Zoe: Thank you!
Steven: Thank you guys.
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