Transcript:

Welcome to through the Glass recovery podcast, where we believe that connection is the opposite of addiction, vulnerability is the antidote to shame, and that recovery isn’t just rewarding, it’s also a lot of fun. We’re your hosts, Steve and Julie. Listen as we get together with friends to shed light on the hard things, talk about the other side of addiction, and how we create a life so full, there’s no space left for alcohol.

If you’ve ever dated sober or intend to start dating sober, this is the episode for you. We turn the show over to five of our friends who are all active in the sober dating world and give them a chance to tell all. They talk about everything from dealing with getting rejected and breaking up, to recognizing red flags and deal breakers, to the awkwardness of sober intimacy. Listen and laugh with us and you’ll probably learn some things along the way too.

As always, we’ve loved sharing all our thoughts with you, but we would love to hear what you have to say too. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Tiktok and let us know what you think about this topic or anything else we post about. We would love to hear from our listeners and get to know you guys a little bit better.

So tonight we’re going to do things a little bit differently. We are going to talk about sober dating, and because Steve and I don’t have any experience with sober dating, we’ve invited five people to join us. We’re going to get the ball rolling, and then let them take off with this conversation and share some of their thoughts and experiences.

So before we get started, I’m going to have everybody just introduce themselves. We’re going to start with Chris, how are you tonight?

Chris: Good, how are you guys doing?

Julie: Good. Thanks for being here.

Chris: No problem. My name is Chris. I live in Los Angeles, California, and I’ve been sober a little over six months now.

Julie: Awesome, cool. Really glad to have you here. Next we’ll do Corina.

Corina: Hi, I’m, I’m Corina. I am 250 days sober and I am coming to you from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Julie: Awesome! Thank you for being here.

Corina: Thank you

Julie: And melissa is back again.

Melissa: Hi, thanks for having me. I am just over 300 days sober now, actually 302, I checked! And I’m coming out from northern Michigan right now, visiting my parents.

Julie: Very cool. It’s nice to see you again and Liz how are you tonight?

Liz: I’m doing okay, thanks. Thanks for having me, I’m Liz, and I am just over a year sober and I’m on the coast of North Carolina.

Julie: Very cool. Thank you for being here. We actually had the pleasure of spending Liz’s one year sober anniversary with her on the coast of North Carolina, which was amazing! And last but not least we have Derrick.

Derrick: What’s going on? My name’s Derek, I live in Denver. Colorado and I will be three years sober in February.

Julie: Amazing, very cool, so glad to have you here. So I have what I think is going to be a fun topic tonight. This is a hot topic in sober communities. Dating is awkward and uncomfortable enough, and when you add sobriety into it, it can get really tricky. We’re hoping you guys will share some of your wisdom. What have been some of your struggles being sober in the dating world? What have you learned? Share your stories and yeah, let’s hear it! Just have at it.

Corina: I mean, it’s just a story of craziness even before sobriety, I think. It’s tempered now that there’s that feeling of certainty and calmness. I think that kind of goes hand in hand with recovery. But yeah, I don’t know, I didn’t have a story, not yet. Anyway, I’ll let someone else go first.

Melissa: I mean I tell people buckle up because it’s weird, it’s real weird. And I think, you know, I’m just gonna go ahead and segue into something that I’m sure I know at least one person in this room has got experience with. But I never went through the whole online dating app thing. I know that that’s a huge thing right now for a lot of people. I prefer to meet people in the wild, that’s my way. So, but yeah, it’s squirrely and it’s weird at first and I know that for me, like, especially in early recovery, I had to get really clear on my red flags and my absolute deal breakers because that for me… like a lot of my drinking stemmed from it. I had trouble in relationships to begin with, so I had to know what I would and would not accept.

One of those things was having a partner who imbibed like at all, because that was way too tricky for me. So I know a lot of other folks that are that are in the recovery community can definitely, you know, that’s something they can handle. But I just was real honest with myself about that being a big no, no. And I will also tack on to that, that just because somebody is sober does not mean that they are a good dating fit. Just because they’re sober and you meet them at the laundromat does not mean that they’re a good dating fit.

Derrick: From the male perspective, I 100% agree with that Melissa, because I have also dated sober women and non sober women and you know, everyone has their stuff. We’ll put it that way. But I think it’s also true, you get to be honest, right in the beginning, with yourself when you’re dating sober, whereas when you’re dating with alcohol involved, I mean… I know me, every date started with a drink before I even got there. Like, you just feel normal and now you go and you have to lose yourself right away. So help me, I went through a lot. This is my second sobriety and my first sobriety, which last year and a half, I dated not sober women. It was difficult because the imbibing was a trigger for me not to make me want to drink, but it made me feel awkward, made me feel like I was the weirdo. I ended up going out because of a woman and I got back to the program and said I’m not gonna let that happen again.

And now I’ve been dating a little bit and I just dated this other woman and she was nuts. That’s another story. So like, you know, everyone, there’s, there’s stuff, there’s, you’re always… Dating is hard to begin with. So there’s just always stuff and doing it sober is not easier to put it that way, I’ll be honest. So I guess I’ve learned in recovery the hardest part of recovery is just relationships period because I’m not just dealing with myself. I’m dealing with another human being and since I was a kid, I’ve learned that relationships are unhealthy. My mom cheated on my dad, my dad drank over it. So what did I become? An alcoholic cheater.

So throughout my addiction, I was just using the substance to mask everything that I was hiding from. Abuse, trauma, whatever it was and I mean there was dates, I would show up and I don’t even remember. Or not show up at all because I got too drunk before I could get there. But when I got sober at 36 and like, I worked on myself, I realized that I don’t know how to date. I don’t know how to ask a woman out the right way. I don’t know how to court someone. I don’t know what it means to be healthy in relationship, not be codependent. How do I set boundaries? Like I’m just learning this whole new word ‘no’, and it’s a full sentence. And being able to tell women no, because I wanted to get their adoration and love all the time because I didn’t get my mother’s. So any women’s attention was good for me, but absolutely horrible.

Um so like when I first got sober, I had a girlfriend before I got sober and we were together for two years and it taught me a lot, but this last year we’re not together, we’re good friends. I ended it the right way. I actually told her I wasn’t in love with her and we’re still best friends. That was such a weird feeling for me to like tell someone, hey, I don’t feel the same about you, but I want you in my life. And it still worked out.

But now this last year I’ve realized I have no clue how to date. Like I have no clue where to go. I realized I can’t go on dating apps because probably when I was in my addiction, I was so bad that I was flagged. So anytime I get on, I get kicked off before I even get started. I’m finding out, like, online dating is not worth it anyways, because no one’s honest about who they are anyways, and half the people are bots. So it’s like, that’s frustrating.

So, like, how do you date sober? Like, how do you not go somewhere where most of the time you’re finding people to hang out with that are using substances to drink or are using, you know, going out and you have dinner and they have a glass of wine, How do you feel about that? Like, I’m finding out the biggest thing for dating right now for me is what are my boundaries and what is my self worth? And can I say no to the to the wrong person? Because sometimes the wrong person feels right. That’s a hard thing to realize when you’re sober. And it’s a hard thing to just work on someone else, like bringing someone else into your life when I hated myself for my whole life. I had so much shame. So, it really started when I started really working on myself. Affirmations and and loving myself, that I started recognizing what is my worth? And like, right now I’m dating someone that’s the total opposite of me, she drinks, she has drugs in her life. I went to a New Year’s Eve party, Decadence, and I danced my ass off and I was sober. Guy came up, he’s like, what are you on? I’m like, I’m sober, he’s like, get the fuck out. And that feels good.

But now I have to ask myself a question. I really liked the girl, but does her substance used to allow me to be, I put myself at risk? And that’s something I’m weighing right now. I would have never done that in the past. I would have rode this out until it was a dumpster fire, til I was using or we got unhealthier, and I ended up in handcuffs because of domestic violence and what not. Like its dating is crazy and I’m not saying girls are crazy, I’m saying I’m still kind of crazy. So yeah, fun stuff. This is gonna be a fun subject.

Corina: Yeah, I know I dating dating before I became sober was dumpster fires as well. But the thing about sobriety like you, Melissa, it that was a deal breaker. I mean, I didn’t mind if they would drink, if they had a drink, you know. But anybody who put on their profile, you know, “is it six o’clock yet?” or you know, like they are “Scotch aficionados” or you know, loved doing wine country tasting tours. I just knew that that just was not going to work for me. But going on a few dates as the sober person and then having my companion drink and I’m not drinking. Yeah, you could tell that they felt awkward too. They didn’t know how to act, they didn’t know how to respond.

And like you Derrick, I mean, I can have a good time. I don’t need to have alcohol to party and dance. But there’s just something that they don’t… a lot of people say, “I don’t trust people who don’t drink” and so there’s there’s that insecurity on their part that they’re seeing you and wondering if you’re judging them. And you’re not necessarily, or maybe you are. I wasn’t judging. But I’m now seeing a person who’s chosen to not drink, they don’t have to be sober because they’re not a drinker, but it’s just as easy for them not to drink as it is to drink. So they opt not to drink, which I find really refreshing. It’s actually kind of nice to have to go out for dinner and we both will have, you know, the mocktail or they just have water or whatever. It’s kind of, it’s, it’s uh it’s nice to have that support, but it was also fine without it. But oftentimes it’s the other person who has the hang up about alcohol.

Liz: Yeah, I remember in my drunken days when I was on the dating apps, if I saw that somebody listed that they did not drink on their profile, I would not swipe whatever direction to accept them. Because I was like, what am I going to do with somebody who doesn’t drink when I’m drinking every single day? So I’m sure now I get, well I’m not currently on a dating app, but I have been, and I suspect that a fair amount of people swipe me away for the exact same reason, you know?

And for me it wouldn’t be a problem to date somebody who was the occasional drinker. In fact, I did briefly date somebody that way. But what I’m really struggling with trying to date sober is the superficiality of the dating apps. And because, you know, I go to these sober meetings where we have really vulnerable and deep conversations and we really share about the true shit that we’re dealing with. And so to go on these apps and just to have, you know, these very dumb small talk conversations with people, I find to be very discouraging.

And I also, because of the sobriety, because I’m not looking to date somebody who’s have a heavy drinker, and just because of where I live, which is a relatively rural area and also in the south.. I tend to lean differently politically than most of the people in my rural southern area, which also, I just, it’s like very much limits the pool of daters. So I think all of those factors make it tricky for me. But at the same time I’m not really willing to compromise on trying to date somebody who does drink every single day because I just don’t want that in my life anymore.

Melissa: I hear you on the whole superficiality piece there. And that and it makes it, like Corina was saying like, it’s tricky before, even without the sobriety piece being a part of it. Dating is complicated and it’s complicated in our culture, we can like zoom out and have have that discussion because that over arches everything even before the sobriety piece gets put into it. And it’s like if you’re dating somebody on an app, for instance, like they’re putting their best self forward, much like looking at the shiny photos on social media. And you’re putting a lot of trust into that interaction with them. It’s awkward because you’re both vetting each other and you also have to be okay with the fact that that person is probably vetting like six other people at the same time. Which if you’re going into that, having insecurity issues to begin with, that’s a huge problem.

Much like Derek was saying, talking about self worth. Like, if you don’t have that piece figured out, that can be a really sketchy, dangerous place for somebody who’s working on their sobriety. To be, you know, like, even getting onto the dating app to begin with, because it’s just tough. But then if you’re geographically limited, if the area that you’re living in doesn’t have people that you’re really connecting with, it can get really challenging. And then you add, like parenting on top of it, which is something that I don’t have experience with, but that’s a whole other bag of burritos.

You know, it’s just dating and the older you get, the more challenging it gets too. I just, I saw this video the other day. It was like a meme with that Backstreet boys song that’s like “dating in your thirties”, and it’s like, “I don’t care who you are, where you’re from, as long as you love me”. And that is what it feels like dating in your thirties. Sometimes you’re like, oh, like here you go.

Corina: Yeah, well dating in the 50s, just so you know, if they’ve got a pulse, they’ve got a pass. It’s like, I’m in my 50’s and I’m dating and what the heck am I gonna do? But now, it is, you’re right, as you get older, it does, the pool does start to get a little shallower.

Melissa: Oh, and then you’re like, oh, I’m sober and then people are like, oh, cool, what do we do for fun? And if you’re newly sober, you’re like, actually, I don’t know because I haven’t done this either. So this is equally as weird for me, like, cool, let’s sit here and stare at each other awkwardly and think of something fun, you can see this has been an awkward experience for me. Some great stories.

Derrick: In the beginning when I first started dating, I still realized I was seeking that external validation. I was taking, like you said, vetting. I’m vetting. Oh, I’ve got nine different women I’m vetting right now. And I realized how exhausting that was, asking one a question, going back to the other, forgetting another like… And like this day and age, and social media, they make it, it’s too easy to do that. Like there’s no integrity, there’s no honesty. There’s no authenticity into dating.

I remember in high school, you know, I’m almost 39 in March. I had to write a letter. Actually call the person or go up to talk to them in order to find out if they liked me. Nowadays, you can send 100 different messages to people and hopefully one hits. It’s like you’re fishing with dynamite. And you know, it’s the authentic piece. So like my solution to that after I realized, okay, this is like… I need to find out who’s gonna really like me.

So usually I start on that first date. Yeah, I’m in recovery, I’ve been an ex convict, I’ve been homeless. This is where I’ve come from and if they’re not okay with that piece, I’m pretty sure they’re not gonna be okay with the rest of me, like, and that’s okay with me. Like I don’t have shame over that stuff anymore. But that’s part of my past, that’s who’s made me who I am. And like, this is a huge part of my life and like, the best parts of me are not that, but that’s part of my strength. Like, if you want to get to know who I am, I’m a lot of fun, I’m charismatic, I’m caring, I’m kind, I’m loving and I don’t just want to give that out to anyone anymore. So I’ve realized like this patience. Like it’s been so hard to be patient because when you don’t have drinking and stuff. And you don’t have that part to drown the fear and anxiety and stress of getting to know someone, and wondering if they’re gonna like, you reject you, hate you.

Oh my God, how do I deal with emotions and am I gas lighting someone right now? Like those are all those unhealthy habits that I use to manipulate and get what I wanted and now it’s like starting to listen. Like this new question I started asking women is like, “hey, do you need me to just listen or do I need to fix this?” And 90% of the time, like, I just need you to listen. I was like, this is so easy. Like, I didn’t know you had to just listen! And it’s just a learning product, but it doesn’t, it’s not a fun thing to start. Like, it’s I feel like I’m a three year old toddler, which I am. I’m three years old and I’m learning all this for the first time. Who I am, what I want, and the dating world is just scary out there because I don’t really know who I’m getting until I meet the actual person, you know?

And that’s why I try to meet people at the gym or in recovery and like just have conversations just wholeheartedly and just be my authentic self. And you know, usually that person will weed themselves out quickly when I say I’m in recovery, I don’t hear from them again. But if I do say that stuff up front and I do hear from them that lets me know they’re at least interested in going somewhere or being a friend and I’ll always take a friend. So that’s kind of kind of, that’s where I go with that.

Which that’s scary to admit I’m an alcoholic or I’m I’m an ex convict. I have emotional problems, I’ve had mental health. But we all do and I mean it’s kind of refreshing. Some people, a lot of people, will open up and they start telling me that yeah, I’ve had those same problems and that’s almost what we start connecting over. That’s where I feel like the real authentic connections come from is when I’m just honest about who I am. I appreciate that because I’ve been judged my whole life and the one person that judged anyone harder than anyone was me. So when someone accepts me for that and has a conversation, here’s me, I want to get to know that person.

Melissa: So you know, I I feel like I went about things kind of in the opposite way in terms of like sharing so much about myself at the beginning with a person. That was more or less because I felt like it was really easy to say out of the gate, like I’m sober and I don’t date somebody who is not sober and here are all of these things about me and everything that I’ve done. If I were to do that, I felt like I had so many issues with really dishonest partners in the past, people that would basically be willing to say anything to date. So it was easier for me, at the beginning anyways, like to just kind of like try to try to let the relationship blossom and unfold enough to be able to start to see someone’s character.

It’s kind of tough to explain. My dad always said that time reveals a person’s character and so if I if I put all that stuff out on the table, like right out of the gate, I’m like, sharing information. First of all with the person that might not be worthy of that vulnerability yet, you know? It gives them a chance to kind of maybe try to twist themselves into a pretzel to try to fit my mold or whatever it is that I’m saying. So it’s like I’m trying to like give more space for things to breathe. Like I’m I’m currently dating somebody right now and we’ve both said that we’re… it’s like we’re not going to regret moving slowly, but we will regret moving fast. So we’ve been trying to like take things really slow and even me sharing things with him, I just kind of like went slowly as I was like, opening up. I didn’t even really tell him that I was completely sober until the second date.

Chris: Yeah, I say I practice patience now when I’m dating. I don’t rush to things like I used to when I was using. You know, I’d be in relationship within like a week if a girl smiled at me. So now I take my time with it and like, I let whoever I’m dating know right away, I’m sober. That’s just for me, it’s just easier for me. But I don’t have to, like, I like how you said, I don’t have to peel the onion back right away. I like building it up now because not everyone deserves you. That’s the thing I’ve learned in sobriety. Just because, you know, we’re working on ourselves and all that. We don’t have to just give ourselves up to the first person that talks to us. And that’s a hard thing because I, you know, rough life with parents, all that seeking validation. Like Derrick said, that’s my story. It’s probably a lot of our stories. And in dating we seek validation and I mean, I live in LA. Freaking validation capital of the goddamn country, and some of the people I’ve dated and all that, like, it’s just like, wow, I’m so lucky I’m sober. And I can see it through like the sober rose colored glasses instead of the old way. It’s beautiful to me now and you know, my sponsor, he’s a beautiful man, he’s taught me a lot. He’s got 30 years sober and he’s in a sober relationship and he said, “Hey, look, if you want to date someone sober, great. If you want to date someone that drinks great, but just be careful of how you used to date before you got sober because those tendencies will come out if you’re not working on yourself.”

And I didn’t realize that until last year when I went out and that’s what was happening. So this year I practiced patience. I practiced contrary action with dating as well. So when I think I should tell her something, I decided not to and I’ll see if it comes out. Where if I think I shouldn’t, then I say it and see what happens. It’s weird, but it’s been good for me to stay honest with myself. And I mean, there’s nights where you’re lonely and you’re thinking about it. But then I go on those dating apps and I feel for you, Liz. I laugh because like, people are insane. Like if I see one more picture of a girl on a boat holding like a mimosa and it’s like, I’m working tech. It’s like, no, you don’t, you work at a golf course, like stop it. It’s just like, I don’t… we see through the BS in our meetings and that’s what’s great about being sober. But it’s sort of like a catch 22 superpower.

Like we can see the honesty that we want, but then we see through it and we’re like, this is a waste of my time, but that’s what’s great. We,may be sober babies. I think Derek has the most time with three years, but like, we’re growing in our early years of sobriety and you learn a lot. And I take solace in my alone time. Don’t even call it alone time. I just take solace in my time. I used to always think I needed to fill it with people, you know. I’m kind of drunk, I need to go to a bar and just meet whoever’s drinking at the bar. Meet whoever is there and become friends with them right away. So I wasn’t alone now, you know, my best friends, my dog, my best friends are my people I work with at my restaurant. Like that’s it. Like, and that’s all I need, you know? And then from there, if I want to let a partner in, that’s that’s my decision now because my sobriety is first with it. So it’s, you know, I say, and like, of course practice what you preach. We all make mistakes when we all get tempted, you know?

It’s just it is what it is, but I think I also just started to rant. But I wanted, I forgive myself more now for making those rough decisions. Like, you know, recently I was talking to a woman and I met her because she came to my restaurant. She liked my cooking and it was all because she met me and all of that and then. But it turned out it was completely not what I thought it was and I was being taken advantage of. I had to be honest with myself and call my sponsor, you know, vulnerable and crying and like, why do I feel this way? Why do I want to drink? What’s going on? And he’s like, I’m glad you called me instead of going to the liquor store and putting your sorrows in the bottle. And like, I would have never been that.

Like, I’m honest with myself. Years ago, I would have just drank and probably dated for three years and hated myself and all of that. And now it’s just… you just, you move on, you know? Sobriety gives you that power to move on to the next person. Dating is fun too, you don’t have to just date one person you can meet and talk and all that, but yeah, dating apps, that was, that was dating.

Corina: Well, I think I’m the only one who likes the dating apps. I think, I don’t know, it works for me. I mean, it’s a good filter, you know? It’s like swipe, swipe swipe and I’ve been doing the dating apps now for, I don’t know… I mean, there was a brief… Okay, so this is a lesson in drunkenness, you know? The being on the dating app when I was drinking heavily, and making stupid decisions. And buying into the myth of the guy with the fish that, you know, you talk about women on a boat, for a lot of women, it’s always a guy holding up the fish or the, you know, the hunting rifle or whatever. And you know, just falling head over heels for this, the wrong person. But being so drunk and wanting that validation and being in the midst of my, my addiction, you know? I ended up actually marrying him in a Las Vegas wedding with Elvis and oh my God. Anyway, being sober and then going back to the same app and then just having that, first of all, I have the clarity. I’ve done the recovery, I mean I’m still doing the work, but being able to filter and you know, I won’t swipe on somebody who’s a drinker, I won’t swipe on the guy with the fish.

I’m not, I’m a little more selective and I have more clarity. And then, yeah, like you said, Chris, like you meet people and you get to know them and “hey, this isn’t gonna work out” and it’s awkward. But I don’t know for me, the apps that the men, they’re not all quality men. I’m not gonna sit there and sell Tinder as some sort of, you know, bastion of dating. It’s a quick and convenient way for, you know, working professionals or people on the go. I don’t have that organic experience of being able to go to a laundromat to meet someone. So it is a vet, it has its own vetting, it has its own vetting mechanism built in. So I don’t know, I had, I’ve had good luck this time. Because I met somebody. Really, I mean, we’re taking it slow, just like you’re doing Melissa. It’s four months. But yeah, it’s uh, I’m more clear. I’m more calm.

I’m less seeking validation and more about the quality of the relationship and where it’s going to lead and embracing the awkwardness. Because, yeah, when you’re sober and you’re kissing, it’s not the same as if you can be, you know, let yourself go and get drunk and just do with, “Woohoo, party!” It’s just, it’s a lot different when, you know, it’s like, whoa.

Derrick: I think that the best part really is now that I’m sober, I get to feel those things. I get to feel what real intimacy is. I get to remember a kiss, I can’t remember what it’s like to get touched or rubbed on my back. Like, I don’t even know, like when you drink, I had no clue if I made it home with them or not. You know, it it was never like that. But now, like, even in dating now, like I encourage my clients, it’s like, just try. I mean, it’s just like if you’re working a program or 12 steps, if you try, it’s gonna help you change your life. So why should you stop yourself from just trying? Like, you’re gonna fail. It’s gonna suck sometimes, but that’s how you grow. And it’s really cool to go out and remember what someone said about their life and they’re like, hey, remember I was talking about this? And I go, yeah, that’s what happened to your uncle, right?

And she’s like, oh my God, like that means a lot to me because that’s the part of the intimacy that’s cool. I mean dating and stuff and whatnot, but like to be able to have a conversation to care about someone to see that. Like, you know, this is this is cool and that’s probably the best part is getting to feel my emotions even when it sucks, like even when you get ghosted, that’s like the worst feeling ever. Like you’re like, it’s going well and next thing you know, like nothing. And like my old self is like, I gotta go by her house, I’m gonna go buy her gym an extra 500 times. And like I can call someone like, hey, this really sucks. And I get to feel that. I get to remember those experiences and it goes into what what I want and I’ll always go back. Like if you don’t feel like you’re ready for dating, like make sure that you’re doing that internal work, that self worth.

Like doing those affirmations every morning, making sure that I’m, I know what I’m loved for. So then I know what’s gonna come external for me, like what I’m worth and what I want to give my time to. But I mean I say have fun with it, like it’s my recovery and I guess I’m so open with mine. If you see my instagram whatever, like I am not shy about my recovery. I’m not shy about putting that stuff out there and sharing it, bringing hope. It’s just a part of who I am and you know, I want someone to be a part of that journey. Recovery is work and it’s hard to get here, but none of this should be boring. It actually is a lot more fun and if you want to identify with it, like I’m sober now, like none of this is gonna be fun, it’s gonna be that way. But everything I’ve done sober even dating has been exciting and it’s just because I get to feel that. I’m not drowning out my fears, my anxiety and my emotions with alcohol so I can just be something that I’m not. It was never fun. And now this is pretty exciting to get to experience the ups and downs of actually dating. Just remind me, I’m just getting like a heatwave remembering the last time I just kissed a girl. And like that’s exciting to know that came from me and I didn’t have to have alcohol or drugs in my system. Like this girl likes me for me, get out of here! Like that’s high five for Derek, like pat on the back, that’s a good feeling, you know? So it’s like I say, experience those things and you know, life’s too short. Even at 39, like I’m just beginning life and it’s cool to do these things.

So I was like, go do them, you know, just because of the recovery doesn’t mean we have to stay to a ball and chain. Go date, you will have fun.

Melissa: Yeah, it makes me think of that Brene Brown quote where she talks about being able to selectively numb emotion and how I mean, I was thinking about this with my current partner. I want to say it’s for the first time in my whole adult life, I got to experience like the giddiness of being a grown up but still kind of feeling like a teenager when a person went to kiss me for the first time. And we were like clanking teeth. And it was awkward, laughing, you know? And and oh it was it was awesome. It was so awkward and awesome. And you know, and just being like, oh my God, he’s going to kiss me and I don’t know what’s coming in! Oh my God, I just clanked teeth,Whoa, this is happening! But it’s like it felt awkward. But also so exciting. And I never got that when I was drinking because I was just full on squid face. You know, like straight to the other person. And that’s a really cool thing. So, thank you for saying that Derrick. Because I was like yeah, that’s that was like a huge part of at least this this portion of the relationship.

And then several others where I just got like, rejected pretty hard. Like coming straight out and saying something to somebody about having feelings for them. And then being like, actually I’m not really into this right now. And I was like, oh yeah, that’s painful. And I’m going to do that sober. Yeah, that’s honest. And you know, And then you get to build up your self confidence because either way you still you still stated your truth to another person. And even though they quote unquote, rejected you, you were you were honest and that’s and brave. That’s really brave to tell somebody you like them.

Derrick: And you said Brene Brown, right? She’s so awesome. Like she’s taught me so much about what it means to be vulnerable and how that’s a strength, especially for men, because we want to stuff all this. And I’m finding like, my emotions are one of my greatest strengths. And like even in I feel statements and stuff like talking, having conversations, like it’s such a beautiful thing to feel that stuff. To be vulnerable and like authentic about who I am and that’s not a weakness. And like you said, like being vulnerable and sharing something and getting rejected. That’s not a gear on who you are or what your worth is. That person just wasn’t ready for what you had to offer or they didn’t want it and that’s okay. That’s not for you, don’t stop being vulnerable. Like that’s how we find true connection, is being able to share those deepest parts of ourselves and be vulnerable. Like it’s such a strength. It’s such a powerful thing to be vulnerable. I love her, she’s awesome.

Melissa: Or you haven’t found the right dating app. You know, there’s there’s you’ve forgotten about that. There’s a Sea Captain’s website, there’s Furries. There’s all sorts of dating apps, you know, for for all these

Chris: There’s all these special Canadian ones I gotta try out. These are like maple syruppers and Lumber Jacks and hockey hotties.

Melissa: Hockey Hotties?

Chris: I just got my mimosa boat girls down here. I need I need to switch it up.

Derrick: And they’re so nice when they reject you. Just a boot, I can’t do it. You know, it’s about time I give up on you.

Chris: So sorry, so sorry. Yeah, you’re really nice. It’s just it’s not it’s a boot time I give up, you know?

Melissa: But seriously though, if you’re ever bored, just google Farmers Only dating profile. And just like spend your evening inside, sober, drinking a tea or a Lacroix perhaps. And just read these these dating profiles on Farmersonly.com and for anyone listening to this, that’s on that website. I’m not sorry, it’s ridiculous. I’m not sorry. They made their choice.

Derrick: They made their choice, Melissa.

Corina: Ya know, I really liked what Derek said about feeling your feelings, you know, because just like you and Melissa, you alluded to that. To just those, that kiss, that first kiss, the excitement and you get to experience it sober. It is, it is really special, more so than, you know when you are drinking and Derek, I wish I knew what the heck did you do, my friend to get booted off these apps.

Derrick: You’re asking me, I was drunk a lot of the times and I was not good with women, I cheated on a lot of women, trust me. So I’m sure they see me on there now and still think I’m the same person. So I’m always getting flagged. I’ve been like, well maybe that’s just God telling me I should never be on a dating app. So we’ll just meet them that way. But yeah, who knows? And it could be like back in the day, I put up pictures that I shouldn’t, I don’t know.

Melissa: But oh my best friend totally got booted for like… he posted a photo of himself shirtless. I think it was on farmers only dot com and his profile is outrageous. It was like I’m a hair farmer or something. He said he was a hair farmer! Apparently you’re not supposed to go shirtless on farmersonly.com

Steve: All right, you guys, this was amazing to just be a fly on the wall.

It was really fun. I, I like I was laughing a lot and I’m glad I was muted.

Julie: I love that they were making fun of Canadians while you were muted. That was wonderful.

Steve: Some of your Canadian impressions are horrible! You know. Oh man, all of these websites, look at all of the recommendations you guys are given for our listeners. Oh man. Alright, so you guys talked about superficial conversations practicing patience. I like that one Chris, there’s more than one way to date and share yourself. There’s lots of options in different ways to, you know, be straight out, open out of the gate or take your time. Peel that onion back, nice and slow. Chris, you talked about, you know, doing the opposite of what you were thinking, just, you know, it’s, you’re learning about yourself. It sounds like it’s, I mean part of that is your own adventure inside of the dating world. It sounds like you have a lot more clarity on yourself, your needs and what you’re seeing on the other side, embracing the awkward and remembering the experience and enjoying that awkwardness of intimacy, sober.

And I think that is probably one of those coolest parts because I could hear and see it in your guys faces when you started talking about that on how wonderful it was. Just to feel that when you were sober. So Melissa, Corina, Derrick, Chris and Liz, thank you guys so much for your time. Thank you guys for being on this podcast. Really appreciate it. You guys are great.

Julie: Thank you.

Derrick: I’m going to farmersonly.com I can tell you that I just started, I just started my free trial, I got an ant farm, so I can fit right in.

Steve: Got an ant farm!

Derrick: One guy had a hair farm!

Steve: So I mean you can, but if you have a dryer, you have a lint farm. Look at you go, no idea what was out there, That’s so funny.

Julie: We also want to thank our listeners for sharing space with us today, join us next week. When the topic of love turns out to be much bigger and much more powerful than I ever would have expected. We publish episodes every monday, so be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss any.